Noel, I was interested to read that the 2 x Never Give Ups and the Flying Penske are only 12 months old yet you already seem to have a considered view on their respective abilities. I reiterate and emphasise that this is only as a matter of interest but at what age do you start breaking in your pups. I am always interested in peoples' methods particularly where they might be slightly different to what I might consider to be the norm. The people with whom I currently associate prefer to break-in their own pups rather than send them away for an intensive, say 4 week, course. Do you prefer to break in your own pups and is this what happens more often than not. My closest associate seems to never bring his pups off the farm until they are at least 15 months. He breaks in his own but I have to say, he does, particularly based on recent experience, not mess around in getting them stuck into it, in fact, quite extaordinary.